My very good friend Michael Collins just made a detailed post explaining why he believes in the Bible, Jesus, God, etc. It was scholarly, well organized, and persuasive for those of that mind set. I'm sure that it would be a comfort for those seeking to justify their faith, and for me it was an interestng look into the mind set of a believer, which is the main reaosn i am here.
But, i noted that there was a bit of 'defensiveness' in the intro, references to people hating, disrespecting, holding contempt for, etc. his book, his god, and his beliefs. I'd like to address that specific point, because it's VERY likely that it was one of MY posts that prompted this in the first place. Now please note that i'm not trying to go behind Michael's back here and avoid direct 'confrontation' (in the positive sense). Michael and i have had phone and IM types of conversations directly already. I believe that we understand each other in general, and respect each other's right to his beliefs. I believe that we also have a high respect for the other's character. Well, that's what i think of him, anyway, but maybe his opinion of me has fallen a bit if he REALLy thinks i'm 'attacking him'. But there's NOTHING i've said that's an ATTACK on anyone. After all, as *i* see it, it's not an 'attack' to tell someone that 1+1=2, not 3. And i REFUSE to accept the often implicit belief here that ONLY Christians are allowed to make statements that define the character and worth of others.
Christian people tell me ALL THE TIME that i'm an imperfect sinner, unworthy on my own, incapable of making up to their god for the pitiful excuse of a human being that i am, and that i'm going to hell. As i understand their religion, this IS what they thin, and IMo they are ENTITLED to think that even though it's not too flattering of ME. To them, those highly negative assessments of ME and my character are FINE because they're just looking out for me out of their great LOVE for me, and they are pathologically incapable of even considering that their views are mistaken. But when i tell them that i believe their beliefs are mistaken, and come from other than objective thinking, i'm REGULARLY told that i'm attacking them, their god, their book, and probably my own mother (?) and that i'm completely out of line for not respecting their beliefs.
They look for an explanation for why *i* don't believe as they do, and deduce that i'm purposely a pawn of their great villain, Satan, or any of a number of other possible explanations, NONE of which are exactly flattering. I've had some of them tell me with GREAT delight that they eagerly anticipate the day that i will meet my just punishment at the hands of their loving, merciful god and will be punished for eternity for the horrible crime of living as (according to them) their god made me to be. Their book claims that god chooses to whom he will give faith, and if that's the case, the bottom line is that he made me to NOT believe, and then later he will punish me for that. Nice logic, but it's what they believe, not me.
But if i suggest that soe of them may be not too bringht, some of them bright but ill informed, some of them bright and well informed but insecure and suffering from low self-esteeem, and some of them simply operating from wishful thinking because they PREFER the simplicity of their beliefs, i'm told that im hateful and intolerant. As i see it, MY assessment of why they believe as they do is an attempt at compassion and understanding of why they hold their position through MY beliefs, and while i understand that they may not INTEND for their opinion as to why *i* think as i do to be insulting, i fail to understand why they can't grasp the reciprocal fact that my INTENT is also NOT to be insulting, and it's absolutely NOT an attack on their person.
I've said 100 times on this site that i am here to understand why believers think as they do. I'm not here to take away anyone's faith, and in fact i consider it unethical for ANYONE here to 'proselytize' others, as we are supposed to be peers here. I have plenty of places to go to discuss my views with like minded people. I am here to listen to, understand, and WHEN ASKED, dialog with people with whom i completely disagree. I'm NOT looking for common ground or compromise, from either side. There IS no common ground between my position and those who believe in supernatural beings. I don't need there to be. As an atheist, i'm long comfortable with holding the unpopular view on these matters, and i'm not insecure about them just because the average person thinks i'm wrong.
There are some theists and other variants of believers here with whom i BELIEVE i have managed to establish a REAL connection and common ground in the matter of respecting the other's right to hold their beliefs, though NOT the beliefs themselves. Those connections have helped me to better understand the thinking of believers, and improved my respect for those whose beliefs lead them to ethical behaviors. That's all we can hope for, because as i've also said a few times it's TOO MUCh for either of us to ask the other to respect the BELIEFS of the other. I CANNOT 'respect' a belief in an unproven being. That's how MY mind is wired, and i won't apologize for it. In turn, a Christian/Moslem/et alia cannot RESPECT my belief that their gods exist only in their collective imaginations, because their minds are wired to accept the existence of those beings as truth.
So, when one of them tells me that i'm going to burn forever in hell, and that they will be there to piss all over me while i'm in torment (this is not an exaggeration, those were the exact words of a message i received here), i will continue to NOT see that as an attack, simply an expression of what they believe (thought their DELIGHT in that fate for me is another issue), but in turn i'd REALLY appreciate it if those on the other side of this issue would stop seeing my assertion that they are incorrect and that their god(s) exist only in their imagination as if it's an attack on them. I'm simply expressing what i believe. If that's FNE for them to do when they express the stuff about my imperfections, then it should be equally fine for me to do when i tell them they are wrong even if MY explanation for why they think it is less than flattering in THEIR eyes.
